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Podcast Ep. 44 - How to choose the best mortgage for your next deal AND get the valuation that you want.


Hello, and welcome to another episode of the essential property podcast with your host, Amanda Woodward and Paul Samuda. Andtoday, we are going to be taking a deep dive on all things financial when it comes to the property world. So we're going to be kicking off talking about mortgages. We will also be talking about mortgage valuations and refinances along with negotiations of contracts and some other bits and pieces thrown in along the way. What prompted the episode this evening was I was listening to Paul on a call with ourbroker and talking about a mortgage application that we're just going through at the moment. And it just reminded me that going from mortgage now is seems to be a bit different than it was a few years back a few more considerations, slightly higher interest rates and feesand so on. So I thought I'd bring Paul in just to share with us how he makes his decision making process or what process he follows.When we apply for a mortgage to purchase a property or a mortgage to refinance a property. He was also speaking with some investing partners earlier on this evening, also on a similar subject. So I thought if it's on our mind, if it's on our investors minds, then no doubt it's on our listeners minds as well. So over to you, Paul, to kick off with the process of applying for mortgages, and how you work that out in your mind.




Thanks. So Amanda, I mean, that's a very interesting area. And you're right, things have become a little bit more complex. Basically,because interest rates have have gone through the roof over the last year and a half, two years, the Bank of England has gone from abase rate of nought point 1% up to a base rate of 5.25%, which is what a 50 fold increase. And, you know, historically, we are going fromone fixed rate to another, it was either two, three or 4% Fixed rate and you were happy with it for five years didn't have anything to worryabout. But now obviously, things have changed. A number of landlords, ourselves included, are coming out of some five year fixed deals. And what's been presented is pretty horrible. So effectively. And

before I jump into this, I need to stress, this is not financial advice, this is just a process that we go through, you should always speak toyour broker, but basically where we've got a couple of mortgages that are maturing, in terms of the fixed rates finished, and they were bothround about three and a half percent for a couple of HMOs. When I asked the broker to send me through the options, I sold fives, sixes andsimple sets as a interest rate. And on top of that, I sold 234 and 5% product fees. So this was an expensive proposition. Now with HMOs, itwill be helpful that you can spread that cost over a number of rooms. But if you're if you have a single lab, then it's a different whole different ballgame. Because you have one tenant paying, that's the price they're paid. And unfortunately, you can't double the rent. But Ialways say the lenders are like, if you're a bit of a gambler and you go to a casino. It's you know, the house always wins. And lenders generallyI like that. So they give you a number of options. Typically what we've done historically, we meaning just landlords in general, is we've just said headline rate is 3% accurate and worked out the cash flow will make this much money over the next five years. ESCO for 3%, fiveyear fixed, you can no longer do that. Because six is the new three or three is new six all the way around it is. And on top of that you've got aproduct sheet. Now, again, the product fees historically have not been that high. And very few people pay the product fee, they roll it into theloan. What does that actually mean? It means that if you're borrowing couple 100,000 and the product fee is 3% as a 6000 pound productfee. So you know very few people are going to want to cut check for 6000 pounds for a product fix. So what they say to the law, what doesactually mean? It means that the bank, the lender, is taking more of your equity, taking 6000 pounds of your equity. And not only has it taken6000 pounds of your equity, it's charging you interest on it. So you calculate that over 1015 20 years that 16 pounds compounded over 1015 years could turn into 15,000 pounds. And that is your equity that the lender has attached itself to and take it. So sometimes it'sunavoidable if you don't have the money to pay it off. So the product fees are now as important as the interest rate. So the exercise that I gothrough currently, I always start off by taking a view of what do I think is going to happen to interest rates going forward, lenders take exactly the same view. And the whole interest rate swap market is based on projections. Now, lenders, like the house in a casino will always stick things in their favour. And you have to calculate what does that mean to you. Now, historically, the differences weren't that great, ie, youknow, you go for a five year fixed, and you will pay a little bit of a premium for that, versus a two year fixed. And it was obvious which oneyou should go for based on your time last. But now when you work it out, there's not a great deal of difference. So it's almost as if the lenders the same heads, we win, tails, you lose. And that's a bit of a problem. So I take timeout, and I build a spreadsheet. And I said,Okay, I'm looking at a two year fixed, or a two year track out, because in the next two years, I'm expecting interest rates to reduce. While I'm expecting interest rates and reduce, have I got a direct line to the Bank of England? No, but the Bank of England does produce a report every month into their projections, economists and old financial programmes in all the financial sectors in the newspapers will give their view of interest rates going forward. And interest rates went up because inflation went through the roof, it's now back down to around aboutthat 4%, or just under that 4%. Mark, it is expected to get back to the 2% level, which is where the Bank of England is judged and mostcomfortable. And that is expected to happen sometime between now and the summer. If inflation gets to 2%, then the bank is totally within itsright to cut interest rates. So I read all the literature, I read all the reports, I read The Economist forecast, and my view is that interest rates inbass raise 5.25%. Now by the summer of 2025, I think they're going to be around about a point and a half cheaper. So ran about 3.75. Now, if interest rates come down by one and a half percent, do I want to be in a fixed rate mortgage for five years at



6%? No, thank you. Absolutely, absolutely.




Where do I want to be? What's the other option, and that depends. If your cash flow is tight, when you look at the cash flow on yourHMO, then you want to go for a while on the surface looks like the cheapest monthly payment. The cheapest monthly payment is generally the longer time, and possibly the highest part fee. But you say but at least I'm making money every month. So I'll go for that one.Often, that can be a mistake, not financial advice. But often it can be a mistake. So what I do, and I did this very, very recently, on one ofour mortgages, I create a spreadsheet, which basically says, Let me list all the different offers that are available from all the different lenders that have been provided by my broker. So I've already decided I'm gonna go for two years. So I get two year fixed 75%mortgage, 80% mortgage or 70%, more than whatever is on offer. I also get a two year tracker, or two year variable dependent what they call it before lenders call it different things. There's a rate attached to each of those things. And there's also part of the fee. The reason why I'm looking at a tracker, I'm saying the nice thing about the tracker, although you still have a two year time, if interest rates for your repayment falls as well, your base rate drops by half a percent, then your repayment is going to drop by half percent. So the recalculate every time as opposed to a fixed mortgage where nothing changes. So what I want to do is calculate over the two year period, what's the difference between a 5% interest rate for a two year fix plus a 4% product fee and the maximum borrowing when I add all those up 24 months of interest payments, plus the product fee? What is the total cost? And I do that for all the lenders at all the different rates, and I work out which is most cost effective. I also work out well what's my repayment. And a good example of this. I look for one particular lender where my monthly repayment was 523. They had an issue rate of 5.1% and a quarter fee of 3%. My interest payment was 523.The total for the period was 16,236. That's 24 months of payments of 523 plus 2.3. The next lender clauses that total for the period 16,701 After that was 17,195 and they went all the way up to the most expensive was a variable by one particular lender where the total over that 24 month period was 28,000. So oh my goodness, what a difference. Yeah. So what was that a difference of 12,000 pounds, more than 60% more now, presumably, that particular lender said, you know, what we don't want to lend in this particular market with so we're gonna make ourselves expensive. So one of the reason is, but I looked at a look at the repayments, the cheapest monthly repayment was 496. And that was a 4.84% interest rate with a 5% are free. So although the 496, monthly repaying was the lowest, the total of the 24 months was 18,056. So another 1800 pounds than the cheapest. So that's what I do. And then I go through and say, Okay,fine, which one? Do I like? The best relative the trackers. So what are people doing for trackers, the cheapest tracker was one at 7.25%. pretty pricey, a 2% fee, the total repaid over the two year period will be 20,295. But but over that period, we think that interest rates goingto drop by about one and a half percent. Yeah. So that one and a half percent reduction comes to about 80 100 pounds. So we take 1800pounds away from what is it 20,295. That's about 18,400. So still a little bit pricey, so probably not worth going for. So the decision I made was actually to go for a two year fixed. So I lose out on any reductions. However, the net cost was still cheaper than if I went for a tracker, or one of the other six reps.




And you don't know until you do the numbers, you don't know


until you do the numbers. And of course, you know, for people that are out there who maybe aren't as adept with spreadsheets and understanding the whole interest rate planning, you know, I'm happy, we're happy to do that for them. That's part of one of the services that we offer. But we think it's essential that we do that calculation. Because you know, 1000 pounds here, 1000 pounds there, it adds upover a 1015 year mortgage. And you also need flexibility. I'm hoping that at the end of that two year cycle, interest rates drop to I'm saying probably 3.75%. So when I do a another fixed rate, I might say, You know what, what do I think is gonna happen? Oh, next two, three years,I think it's, he might change it by half a percent. So maybe I'm happy to fix a 5%. And I can get a four and a half percent mortgage with hopefully a low product fee. Yeah, so that's how we're approaching. I've had a couple of conversations with with with with landlordsrecently, belly aching over this whole thing. And so you have to do the numbers, you have to do the numbers. So that's what youoverheard Amanda, when I'm speaking to the broker, I sent this to the broker, I hit the broker was probably a little bit taken aback andlevel of detail I went into, but it's got to be done. We operate this as a business and we make decisions based on the number it's all about numbers.




And I think there's also a test of the quality of the broker as well in terms of ensuring that they are presenting you with a number of different options, not perhaps just saying, you know, one shoe fits all or one size fits all, and looking at the different types of mortgages out there. This segues nicely into the second topic this evening with regards to mortgage valuations. So I had a scenario about a weekand a half ago, where one of our landlords who we managed the property for contacted us and said they had just gone for a refinance of a property so they bought a small commercial building, converted it into a six bedroom, all ensuite, absolutely stunning HMO. They thenhad that property valued. And the valuer came round and valued it at 120,000 pounds. They were obviously rather upset at that valuation and I was completely astonished because that valuation we actually refinance something very similar, albeit about three or four years ago, and that valuation came in at 180. So I was certainly expecting something north of 200. So after we walked it through, I suggested that they go back to the broker, different lender, different valuer. Let's go again. Yes, there's another valuation fee. But we needed to getthis under the nose of the lender that had the appetite for HMOs which not all do. We had to get it with a valuer that we thought would value it right. But I offered our service to the landlords and said, let me take control on valuation day. I will speak with the valuer in advance. I will go through our process for a successful valuation, both before the valuation date and on the day. And that's what we did. Wemet with the valuer. We went through that process. It's




just tweak. I was trying to wrap my brain who you were talking about and I've just remembered the whole process. But can we not have aconversation with the landlords before? And say, and say to them Don't go for the valuation yet? Yes, it was super keen to do it becausethey need to refinance.


Yes, because they had literally just rented the property, we said that, you need to probably give it a few months. So we improve theincome, the HMO licence was going through, but we hadn't actually got the licence in our hand. And, you know, just wanted to get downas soon as possible, did everything they thought they were doing, right. But I guess just not understanding or just not having that little bit experience that we've had, because we've had those horrible down valuations. We've had, you know, the new valuations, we've had everything in between.




So we look at how we've learned to develop our process, which, you know, Touchwood has been pretty much foolproof,




it has it has, and it worked for them. And I was so so pleased, and that 120,000 pound valuation, for valuation number one, valuationnumber two was 254,000 pounds, which is fantastic for them. That's exactly Scott of where they wanted it a little bit more than they wanted. And that's just the power of experience, isn't it?




Man, these guys are good, guys. They're great guys, we have come across landlord, in the past, who have been a bit of note LOTOS, wedid not these guys is not at all, and they just had a rough ride wants to go their own way. And only to come back with a tail between theirlegs. The whole valuation process is a sides, it's 70%, science basic set up. And there's a process that you follow, which captures a whole bunch of things directly or indirectly. And if you have not gone through that process, or have not been taught or trained, go through that process, you will mess up, you know, we something that we had to share with our landlords or, or investing partners. But in a simple, simple example. Are those people that don't turn up for the valuation? Oh, gosh, we don't have a valuation relative to what the hell you want.




And who knows what the tenants are going to say? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.




And, you know, it's, it's such a crucial, crucial, crucial fake. And that's probably one aspect of about 15 or 20 steps that we process, whenwe look at a valuation, depending on the size of the property, depending on what sort of valuation they get. And we cover all the bases. I remember, you know, I was speaking to a landlord in Burton, who she was valuing her property and, and if someone that I've mentoredyears ago, and she's had a bit of a rough ride, so I give

her a little bit of friendly advice. And, and, and again, I remember in sort of a day before the valuations, you call me up and she was reallypanic, and she was screaming and all the notes, I told her, what makes you do this makes up about it makes you let them make sure youand she came back with a valuation of I think it was something like 40 or 50%, greater than she had last time and the valuation wentwrong. So we have a tried and tested process. And you know, how many times have you heard me say a mantra at the end value, the dollar value is the most important value when it comes to buying the property. Totally debt, don't value that gdv that final valuation determines how much money you're gonna make that money going to take out what you're going to take the profit for the profit that you'd be doing, buy and resell. It's the most important one that we got to get right. People get excited about the purchase, but we need to get excited about is the valuation be in valuation. Wait a minute, Minnesota, and you know, it's pusher so it's great. These guys got the valuation that they wanted, but I'm really, really happy for them. Anything is important, I think in this environment, it's crucial to get a good valuation. And to be fair, I mean, we did a valuation on one of our properties fairly recently. And I think he came back at 240 but we onlytook 200 Yeah, because the other aspect of it is that yes, you can get take some take all your money out and some this was the case in our situation. But the cash flow in with this high interest rate environment, the cash flow that will be made, was derisory, it just wasn't worth it. So we said, look, you know what, we're happy, we take a 20,000 pound valuation, we get all but 10,000 pounds of our money out. But we still have a fairly decent cash flow.




And that brings down the loan to value as well, doesn't it? Which is helpful. Absolutely. Absolutely.




Absolutely. So I think the message here I mean ties in with what we say in this environment. You have to double down on how you go about with your doing your valuation to get the result that you just shared with them and there is a lot of things to consider. valuers are beholding to the lenders lender can say no to everything by 10% You'll never you'll never see that on a piece of paper. But they can say that because they can the markets a bit a bit choppy and they want to you know be a little bit more prudent. You get good value as youget really horrible rains that you should avoid like the plague. Amanda is probably flush with more values.




Well, it's often me that ends up doing the doing the value uation day being on the ground a little bit more. And we have unfortunately and Iwould have shared this with some of our listeners in the past had valuers that have spent two hours in the property up in the loft down in thecellar. You know, asking every question you could imagine, walked out the property gave it a new evaluation and said there's no demand for HMOs even though the property is fully lit, and we've got a couple of 100 in the area, just completely completely screwed evaluation. So needless to say, we avoid that one particular value at like the plague. But on this evaluation that we're the we're referring to in Crewe. Thevaluer was very detailed, and very, very detailed. Now one little tip I will have is where possible connect with the valuer way in advance

of the valuation. So on this example, the actual walkthrough of the property was almost the last 10% Because she had already made up in her mind largely what that property is going to be valued based on the information that I had sent her. This was basically this is an existsYes, it does. Okay, great. But when she turned up, I hadn't met her before. And it was nice to meet a female valuer as we don't meet that many. I turned up, never met her before. And she said to me, my colleague remembers you from a past valuation in crew. And he said to me, if you're meeting with Amanda be ready for a high spec property, which I just thought was just a nice little cherry on the top, because it just put her in the right zone for expecting quality. She had all the information upfront, the valuation was more about connecting with her and making her trust me to make sure that the information was correct. And it all worked out. Worked out on the day.




Yeah, brilliant, so important, so important and easily underestimated this last stage, and the most important stage. So what's the last topic that we were going to cover at least? Well,




so there was two really, we were going to talk about, you know, on the subject of finance and costs we were going to talk about renegotiatingcontracts with whether it be supportive housing providers or just other long term corporate type agreements. Because every calculation onyour cash flow is important, isn't it? Perhaps just touch on that. And the conversation you had earlier about Birmingham?




Yeah, I mean, we've had a few conversations recently with their own properties, properties on behalf of landlords and some people that we're speaking to in Bama. And I mean, typically, it's a long the lease, it's a three to five year lease. And as you come out of that the wholeworld has changed, you know, all of a sudden, right utilities that double your interest rates have gone up. So when you look into extend that, what do you do, we had one recently, there was a lot of back and forth, because typically these charitable organisations or quasihousing associations, or care organisations, they don't have as much flexibility as we would like, you can't just double the rent on the isgone or cut back. So there is some limitations. So we found that we should start a negotiation as early as possible. And that means six months before the end of contract, you want to get a steer as to whether they want to stay there. And you should assume that they don't. And what that actually does, if they do want to stay there, it puts pressure on them to strike a deal sooner rather than later. Sometimes they have funding challenges where not they don't have the money, but they don't have confirmation of the contract, why they service. But that it's that there's nothing you can do about that. That's, that's their situation, they have to make the commitment. So start negotiating early, put together and presentation in terms of what's required. So you know, we can do that to assist that covers, you know,things like what's happening in the market, what deals you've done in other areas, what people are willing to pay, and stuff like that. And so basically appointed for an argument. So this is why we're presenting these new prices. If you're happy to go with them, we can extend ifyou're not, then we'll check hands and wish all the best. And maybe we might meet up in the future. But that's it for now.

This is where we come in because we obviously installed from crew now other areas, we have a good feel as to what the market rates are then. So in terms of negotiation, if room rates are 700 pounds per month, and three years ago, they struck a deal at 450 pounds permonth, then you're not gonna sign a deal for 500 pounds. Yeah, which is probably what they want to do. The market rate isn't so many pounds month, yes, you're committed for three years, maybe we'll bring it down to 640. But it's not gonna start with the fans. And if they don't have the budget for that, then you know that you're either going into the market and just selling it as individuals with an HMO or you're looking for other organisations that probably have a slightly different model and can't afford that IP. So that's really the importance of it. You know, often you know, the situation in Birmingham is unique situation where one of the properties is unlicensed before the whole article full payment in Birmingham. So that can be a little bit of a challenge that needs to be sorted out. They had a very low rental from As an agent that was acting on behalf of the charity, so there's lots of scope for negotiation, that is called free negotiation. But start early,do your numbers, everything goes back to the numbers. If you had to manage it yourself, I, you know, rent it room by room paying the bills. What sort of profit would you want? What's your cost basis? If you're looking for another organisation? Who do bills included? Thenwhat do you want? How much money would that makes you? Are you comfortable with that for the next three years or five years? Youcan't wait to negotiate without knowing your numbers. Yeah, do your numbers and we can help landlords when they're in that position togo for those numbers.




I think also, it's to be confident, isn't it in terms of going into that negotiation? Don't feel that you have to offer something super low? And be sort of brave that actually, yes, these are the numbers that work for me, and this is what I'm going to put forward? I think on the lastone that we did, you did quite a jump and the price. And I thought, oh, gosh, that's pretty, pretty large increase. But rents had gone up sosignificantly in that period. So we had to do it. And the provided understand that as well. Because if they had to go and then resource anew property, they would be facing market rents also,




you know, if the property has said, Well, it's better to double, you know, in as much as you know, they're comfortable, they know the workings of that particular property. So they if they want to continue, they don't really want to leave, and it's just a matter of finding that point where they're comfortable with it is negotiation isn't negotiation, you know, it is the care sector or the child sector. Does that meanyou should be charitable with those clients? Know, you know, you're running a business and you want to do what's right for you.




I think the part about the care or caring is that where that shows up is in terms of the quality of the property we provide, it shows up in terms of the compliance. So a couple of our properties and crew were in there every six months emergency lighting, servicing, fire alarm servicing, they're maintaining that property. So what we want to do is President quality, but we want to be paid well for the for the property wepresent. And I think that's okay. I think that's okay. Now as our final subject on the numbers, let's just touch on utilities, for our HMOlandlord, listeners,

this is always something that we're conscious of, we're conscious of it ourselves within our own properties. So Paul, just share with ussome of the challenges this winter, which I feel that was better than last winter, to be honest, but just share some of the challenges that we've been going through.




Yeah, I think it was better than last winter, because it was less of a shock. Yes. And this winter hasn't been as harsh in terms of the weather.But it as I've said in previous podcasts, HMOs have stood the test of time, they've stood the COVID test, and they hit states, which is great. And we were able to increase the rent on HMOs in the same way as single let landlords have been able to do it there. So there'sthat no inhibition, no issue with HMOs whatsoever.

However, Matt said, the biggest biggest challenge is controlling utilities. And most HMOs are Gas and Electric. We have a couple that areelectric only. And that's a whole channel by itself. But Mozar Gas and Electric. And we a few years ago, ensure that all landlords had inspira thermostat fitted, so we can cap the heat. Over that time. We've had everything happen to try and scupper that plan by the tenant. And yeah, I think one Bridgette off the wall and placed it outside. So that it will always show within a cool temperature range. And they will justboost the housing temperature to whatever they wanted. I mean, they're very great. Very great.




We've had it in the garden. We've also had in the fridge. Oh, yes, we've had to now like extra nail them, secure them to the wall. But thatobviously comes with a sneaking in at the heaters and so on. Yeah. And




that's been the biggest challenge. tenants know that we have to give 24 hours notice to visit their rooms. And if they know that, then they'regoing to hide the XRP. Ledger heated up very, very expensive. Yeah, we have some overseas tenants that don't understand why they can't have the heating on night. Because they come from a country where, you know, at three o'clock in the morning, it's still 25 degreescentigrade. So we've started to explore different options to assist us and you know, fortunately, we were speaking to inspire the other day.And one of the new parents that they've come out with is a temperature control gauge in the room. So if there's a spike in the temperature,it'll alert you straight away that there's something going on this room Yeah, someone probably go electric heater. But




yes, it's a humidity and a temperature sensor. And like Paul said, Put per room there about 80 pounds each from memory, which is not ahuge amount. If you wanted to roll that out across a few 100 properties it would be but if you're doing a new development now well worth putting them in from the get go. As your heating is off, but the room is 30 degrees. We know we've got

a heater abuser that we can follow up on and obviously a lot easier than constantly knocking on the door. wasn't trying to get access and soon, which we do do when we think we've got a problem, but it is it is pretty hard to manage. Yeah,




I think the other thing, you know, in our most recent development, we've, and one or two other landlords have gone on the same road,we've explored infrared heating, yes, which has a very low output compared to convection, or definitely compared to electric fan heaters, which they sneak in and does a good job and warm in the room. The reason we like that is because we can control the heating externally, on a room by room basis, which enables us if there's someone that wants a little bit more heat, we can then hypothetically say, yes, okay,firewall 10, up to 25 degrees, but you'll have to pay an extra five pounds a month. So we've trialled that now, what it doesn't do is prevent them from bringing in fan heaters. Yeah. Which is really where the challenge lies. So we spoke to a couple of our electricians that wehave on team, and they looked at things that they could connect to sockets in each room, which almost breaks the circuit, it's almost like it




cuts off, if there's a if there's a particularly high voltage that's going through that socket, or your fan heater, it will kind of trip it or shut it off. I don't know the technical term, but it stops working, which is what we're looking for. And it's not to just make it crystal clear that it's not about having tenants that are cold and uncomfortable. It's about monitoring and controlling to an ambient temperature, because lack of ventilation or you know, opening the window, and excess heat through a heater leads on to our next issue that we have, which ismould. And if somebody is having a sauna in the room and not opening the window, there will get mould on the wall and the next callfrom the tenant is I've got mould on my wall, can you come and clean it off. So not only are we paying for their heating, we're now paying for mould removal treatment. And it's just you know, that has to be put to it put to a stop. So we manage it, we allowed them to boost its ambient temperature, but all of this kind of excessive heat. And I have walked into houses pre inspire thermostat, and the heating is on35 degrees. Nobody's home. Yeah, windows open, etc, etc. And then




okay, because they're not paying bill. Yeah. So it's something that is an ongoing challenge, there isn't an instant solution. But there are things that we have that make it a little bit more difficult. The ultimate, ultimate challenge is trying to prevent heat as be bringing the property which you can't, but we do find we do confiscate them. That's in our terms agreements, in




our terms, and also the HMO officer. For crew, every time I see him will remind me that they are a fire hazard. They should not be in therooms under any circumstance. So we do we do ask them to be removed. And we just do our best on that. But I think our landlords wecommunicate

regularly on this subject, I think the message is, you know, instal the smart metres, keep an eye on the bills, and alert your agent if yousee a spike, because we're not telepathic. And we need to know and if your energy is spiking, we will then you know, we'll be we'll knockon the doors, and we'll see what's going on.




I think the infrared heating that we're testing the app that we have, I don't know whether you've looked at the app in detail, but I suspectYeah, we'll give the temperature of the room, it does, yes. And if there's a spike in that temperature in the room, over and above what the infrared heating is set at that, then that will be an indication or some other form of eating. So we'll be able to tell. And we can do reports ifnecessary to prove to the tenant, what has been happening over a period of time. So that's the role that we're going down. As I said, HMOshave operated well through thick and thin. But this is, you know, the one fly in the ointment, which is a challenge. And if




you don't know much about inspire thermostats, please do drop me a message. I'm quite familiar with them, the lovely lady there who looksafter us. And I can connect you with with her. And she can tell you, which is the best one to get and so on. But it is really pretty well it's very,very important that you have something like that or similar installed.




Just expand on that a little bit. Over the last few weeks, we've been approached by a number of investors, either new or existing, they'reeither want to start in the HMO space, or expand their portfolio and golf and buys let's switch roles or add mortgage loans to their portfolio. And whether they're new or existing and want to do more. This is an area that we spend a lot of time talking about and how wemanage that whole aspect. But in terms of the newbies who are looking to get into HMOs we're always happy to speak to new potential investors that want to move into the HMO space. One of the things that we should mention it for crew, I think you brought it up the other day, we had a ongoing landlord who was betting with the council to get some planning and existing property through planning missed the ICO deadline, putting an application was pushed back and pushed back but now he's managed to get it through. And that's a ray of light I think and a reflection of how harsh article four has been With regard to new developments and new accommodation for the town, I




think it's possibly the first one, I wouldn't need to go on the planning board or window and do a double check. But I think it's the first or one of the first where planning has been required for, you know, a straightforward five bed. And eventually, I think this has been ongoing for nearly two years, they've granted and I was so so pleased for the landlord who has been battling away on an expensive fight against the planning department with his architect, but has eventually won. So that's really good news.


Okay, Max, that's, you know, in discussions that we've had, and that's a big part of it, we're looking to set up shopping crews and HMOlandlord is a big part of the conversation in terms of where you can where you have to buy for planning what the numbers are, there's new legislation coming in in terms of extending properties. What does that mean, in terms of you got beyond six, six people in the roomwithout planning required? Those are the conversations we've been having recently, and I'm sure as people could become a little bit moreemboldened. With the potential drop in interest rates, they'll look to expand their portfolio and add more HMOs or add HMO to a battlerportfolio going forward, and we're here on hand to advise them, it's part of our advisory service Portfolio Advisory Service or Newstar. HMOadvice. And




that's for that's not just for existing landlords either. That's also for new investors that want to come on board and just use our advisoryservice. Whether you go on to do stuff with us directly or go on to do stuff yourself, we can still provide that sort of advisory service at the very beginning. So happy to help on that. Brilliant, brilliant. I think that's it. This is our impromptu, Monday night 11pm podcast episode recordingposted. Let's do it. Now. Let's get on with it. So we've done it, we'll send it off to the editors. And it'll be with you in a couple of days.




And I think we're probably making that we've probably done quite a few podcasts since the end of the year. So we'll make it up for the left in the latter part of last year, which was thick with lots of things happening. So we're trying to make up for that. And we'll regularise and do our minimum one monthly, where we can do more we will I




think we'd like to try and do too, but we'll see. Yeah, yeah. So okay, thanks for listening and look forward to sharing with you on the next episode.




We hope you enjoyed today's episode, and if so, please hit subscribe and share with those who you think would enjoy it too. To get in touch with Paul and Amanda directly. Please visit their website, www dot essential property For more information we look forward to sharing with you on the next episode.

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